Bio Hacks to Better Relationships

John Gray: 00:00:04

This is When Spirit Calls and you on your journey are in the right place. This show is about magic miracles and meaning shared through stories, interviews and channeled messages. We have so much to share about who you are and your divine mission here on the earth. Let's get to it When Spirit Calls is right now.

DeeAnne Riendeau: 00:00:32

I am extra excited for our guests today because I grew up as a little girl hearing about this man's book. And today our guest is John Gray. John is the author of the most well known and trusted relationship book of all time, men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, USA Today listed his book as one of the top 10 most influential books of the last quarter century. In hardcover, it was the number one best selling book of the 1990s. Dr. Gray's books are translated into approximately 45 languages in more than 100 countries and continues to be a best seller. Dr. Gray has written over 20 books. His most recent book is beyond Mars and Venus. His Mars Venus book series has forever changed the way men and women view their relationships. John helps men and women better understand and respect their differences in both personal and professional relationships. His approach combines specific communication techniques with healthy nutritional choices that create the brain and body chemistry for lasting health, happiness and romance. His many books blogs and free online workshops at Mars and venus.com provide practical insights to improve relationships at all stages of life and love, an advocate of house and optimal brain function. He also provides natural solutions for overcoming depression, anxiety and stress to support increased energy, libido, hormonal balance and better sleep who doesn't want those things. He has appeared repeatedly on Oprah as well as on the Dr. Oz Show today. CB s this morning, Good Morning America and many others. He has been profiled in time Forbes, USA Today and People Magazine. He was also the subject of a three hour special hosted by Barbara Walters. John Gray lives in Northern California for 34 years, he happily shared his life with his beautiful wife, Bonnie until her passing in 2018. They have three grown daughters and five grandchildren. And he is an avid follower of his own house and relationship advice. What a treat and honored is to have John with us today.

DeeAnne Riendeau: 00:02:49

Well, everybody, I'm so happy to be back with all of you on another edition of When Spirit calls. I have an extra special guest today that I'm so excited about. I grew up hearing all sorts of things about this author, this divine guidance mentor, and growing up in a household with a mom who was always eager to learn about people in relationships. And so men are from Mars, Women are from Venus was a book that was floating around my house. And today I have the incredible John Gray. Hello, John. Hi. So nice to talk to you. I am so happy to have you here. And you know, I'm sure some of our audience knows a little bit about you if they've read any of your books, which there are so many of I actually was shocked when I was reading through your list of books. And I can't wait to dive into more of them. But I'm curious to know what was your journey your process in actually getting to this first book then men are from Mars, Women are from Venus that we all know about. You know, what was that process?

John Gray: 00:03:53

It is the most famous of all my books. And then after I write another book and people I say Well tell us about manna from waters so it gets the most attention. For sure. My journey is I grew up in a very spiritual family. My mother had esoteric bookstore. She's an astrologer as well, she, her library of esoteric books were so big that she decided to make it a lending library she bought a house just made it lending library became the biggest spiritual bookstore in the country. If you remember by the Bodhi tree bookstore, it started the same year in California, but she was in Texas, Houston, Texas. And it grew bigger. I mean, it was. And then when my books came out, and all my videotapes game and all the game came out and all the cars came out. She had to build an extra wing onto the bookstore or fall on her son's project, whether it was at time, but I grew up in that environment, doing yoga since I was a child, meditating, not knowing it, but I would meditate. I would just sit next to the heater every morning and just go into a deep meditative state. I didn't know what that was. It was just very pleasing to me. That I remember my first real Cosmic experience for me, you know, everybody has their own but mine was riding a horse and it went into a gallop. And suddenly I was unbounded awareness which later stabilized being a monk I then went on to, oh, went to school and part of that learned Transcendental Meditation, a wonderful program, I fell in love with that Bella with the teacher, he was brilliant, his fun, he was working hard, a good mentor for me. So I spent nine years as a celibate monk with him. I was his personal assistant, I taught his teacher training program, teaching the teachers of Transcendental Meditation, it's a very good program, then I went off, you know, I, you know, this is stage where, you know, when you absorb what you needed from your teacher, it's time to go out. I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't really need to teach meditation, you know, certain extent we're motivated to teach the things we're really learning. And I mastered it, you know, I was one with the universe, everything was God, all that stuff a little bit crazy, too, that people go into these kind of that everybody's God, you and then suddenly, people rip you off, you realize that no, not exactly assets of them as God, but that people evil exists, that's been a long journey for me. And everything, ultimately, is God. So that was part of my journey. And then, you know, if you come out of being a monk, then you're here to be in the world, to be of service to the world and also to mate to make love. And my first workshop I taught on my own, not about meditation was making love workshop. Because I was most interested in sex. At that point, I started having sex after teenager had sex, nine years, nothing. And then coming to that, why he was such a spiritual consciousness, the whole idea was enlightened sexuality is what I taught. Ultimately, if you want to continue the great making love, you have to have relationship skills outside the bedroom. And that developed the ideas of men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, because people are all getting confused about how men are how women are, and we were all changing to you know, as a woman today, you're not like a woman 50 years ago, you can see pictures of my friends who are flight attendants back in the 60s, and they're 19 years old, they look like they're 40 Yeah, you know, it's a whole nother generation has come in a higher consciousness has come in and that higher consciousness gives us access to what in the past we didn't have access to. And by that, I mean, not only our higher truths, which are coming through you through me so many people, but it's access if you're a man access, not just to your masculine side, but also to your feminine side. And as a woman, access to your always have access to your female side, but then access to your male side. So I still remember the exhilaration I felt Houston, Texas, I'm a Texan. I'm a cowboy in all these things. And suddenly, the Beatles came out with long hair and I grew up my hair was the hippie generation LSD, we all got high. But I felt so alive, moving from the traditional mail, to demonstrating against Vietnam, you know, all this stuff, having a voice that deeper peace and love and happiness and free law, you know, that was me swing it, for me, was swinging from my masculine side, traditional side over to my more, we might say, liberal side, the feminine side. And so but there's a place in between there, where you're on both sides at the same time. And that was exciting. And that was what happened for the feminists. They had been, you know, sort of subjugated to just being women. And women love being women, it just there was this sense of when a lot of men died, and World War Two. So when a girl grows up without a father that has a big effect on her, you don't have a sense of how amazing men are and how they are and you misunderstand them so much. That was one piece of it. Another part of it, which is birth control came in and with birth control meant that everything that our culture has had before which is you don't have sex unless you're in a marriage. Now I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that's how it was. You know, when I was a teenager, it was I'm having sex the why is this a bad thing? A piece of paper says it. Now I would explain to that teenager. It's a matter of love. If you have sex without love you deplete your lifeforce energy. And of course, if you didn't have birth control, a woman would be a fool to have sex with a man who wasn't going to stay with her. So commitment and commitment was you know, that's what marriage was seen to be as a commitment to be there to help you raise this child. It's our family and that's the ideal and then now women didn't have an excuse to say no to sex and a lot of women just wanted to be like men anyway they're going over their male side just like aren't going over my female side sex without consequences. You know, it was just like, it was all free love it was the 60s bro you're out walking bro music, naked bodies, all fun stuff. But what happened for me at that time was after that I crashed. And I said there has to be another way and that's where I consciously rekindled and became a Student of meditation and higher consciousness and so forth. But already there was higher consciousness because it was so easy to shift from the masculine and the feminine. Now what's happened with this higher consciousness is massive gender confusion. Because as women go to their male side, so many women say to me, I want to find my female side, again, I feel overwhelmed. I'm always doing doing doing doing whatever happened to enjoying what I'm doing relaxing, and having love and feeling lovable. And all that, as is you have to nurture your female side, it's easy to go to your male side, it's hard if you're a woman to nurture your female side, just like once I've got to my female side, I needed help to get back to my male side. And that's what meditation did for me. That's what you know, being a yogi did, you know, I did the first yoga video on planet Earth only because marshy had the equipment, we brought anybody on to that the equipment, the video always talks and the video of me doing yoga, because I've been doing yoga since I was a little boy. So this was, you know, my masculine side coming in discipline, fasting, sometimes not talking for a month, you know, meditating long hours, and being selfless. Just being of service, to the organization, and so forth. All of those qualities develop masculinity.

DeeAnne Riendeau: 00:11:18

This is so fascinating, because I love how you're explaining that there's a bit of a pendulum swing here, right? And I know I spent a lot of my time in my masculine energy to being an achiever and going for all of these things, and leadership and all that, and it's taken me quite some time to find that sweet spot. Do you think it's easier for some than others, when they, you know, go into one aspect of their divine feminine or divine masculine? To find that kind of harmonious balance? Do you think that there's certain types of people that might struggle with kind of finding that sweet spot?

John Gray: 00:11:57

I think that the challenge is to have the teacher show you how to do it. need someone to show you how to do it, there are no mentors, teaching women how to come back to your elbow, maybe some you there, but it's happening now. But it's not like we got to see our mothers and fathers do it. Okay, that's the challenge. There's no example. And, and even still, I mean, I spent 50 years teaching these ideas wrecking always to understand the yin and the yang, the masculine and the feminine. And I have so many bio hacks, I mean, it would take, it takes a weekend, I teach weekend seminars, and from my side, it's all about how to change your biology that was support masculine and feminine being simultaneous. So I'm masculine and feminine, simultaneous, I'm basically rarely even angry at anything, but at the same time, very productive. And it's not like I suppress my feelings. I'm feeling love all the time. I make love almost every day. You know, I have a super vitality for a man 73 years old, my friends have all it's all gone, you know, and it's, it's because I practice what I preach, okay, I really understand what it takes to be a man this morning, I jumped into a cold swimming pool, I did my laps, and that I had sacks, I did that. Now I do in advance. All these things advance that day, when I make love, this is an advance thing. When you're having your higher consciousness more integrated, then you can make love without addiction to to the ejaculation. So I'm multi-orgasmic and my partner's multi-orgasmic. So there's no need to end. So it can just depending on our schedule, how long we want to do it for

DeeAnne Riendeau: 00:13:37

It is amazing. This is so incredible. You know what, what do you have to say about the people that are, you know, maybe struggling with having that intimacy or that making of love in their life? Is there anything that stands out for you, that would be one thing that would benefit them or that they would need to know that you wish you would have known?

John Gray: 00:13:58

Yeah, so many things. And of course, that's why I wrote men are from Mars, but more relevant to our topic today. It's beyond Mars. And Venus is meant for Mars really fits for couples who are a bit more traditional, where the man's make money, the women's raising kids, boy, they just go, oh, my gosh, you're following us around all the time and worked. But when you are not in that situation where a woman is dependent on a man, now other hormones are being produced when you're depending on a man, you can trust Him and you depend on him, it makes huge amounts of estrogen. Now women need to make 10 times more estrogen. Now once they go through menopause, they don't have to make as much estrogen but has to be the right balance compared to their testosterone. And women make a lot of testosterone as well. But once your ovaries are not pumping out your estrogen, it has to come from your adrenal gland. And if you're stressed, adrenal gland can do it very well. And what it will tend to do always the default for women is when you're out of balance, you tend to go to your male side. And I mean, just think about it. The female side of us is the receptive side is the gatekeeper only comes And I'm in charge of that it's receptive. Now if you don't feel I can trust someone, then what's your reaction? And it'd be, I'll do it myself. And that's the battle for women is certainly some things you have to do yourself. But if that's the dominant force in your life, what you're making then is male hormone testosterone, and not enough estrogen. So after menopause, you got to keep making sure you're not slipping into, well, I've lived a long life, you can't trust anybody. If you want to get it done, you do it yourself. And you definitely don't expect your husband to do it. So you just learned to do everything yourself. And then you find out that you're not you're stressed. And if you look at any woman, who has has cortisol, chronic cortisol being produced, or even any cortisol being produced at that moment, her surging and testosterone is being produced, and estrogen is going down. Wow. So a man is just the opposite. When a man is stressed, always always is estrogen levels are going up, his testosterone is going down. For a man to be stress free, he needs 10 to 20 times more testosterone than the average woman he needs to be making it. And that's that the romantic feelings you know, when a man has romantic feelings towards a woman, in her presence, his testosterone goes higher. men lose that romantic feeling within her presence, his testosterone goes down. And then so you have to look at what are the bio hacks that allow us testosterone to go up with her and vice versa. If she's stressed, her estrogen levels are too low, she's doing everything herself. She doesn't depend she doesn't trust and she doesn't appreciate these are key factors of lack of receptivity. You know, if you're feeling grateful, and you're feeling happy, and you feel like I can trust this guy, you don't trust perfection. Nobody's perfect. But you just you basically, you're open hearted, you know, this is what romance does when you we have these bio hacks which are you remember, these are hormones, right? So when a woman's estrogen level when a woman has an orgasm, for example, the romantic feelings that go along with an orgasm is her estrogen levels are doubling if her estrogen levels don't double, she doesn't get pregnant. Okay, so now we got 30% of women who can't get pregnant, they can still some of them can still have what they think is an orgasm, but that's called climax. Freud talked about this and the feminists threw it out because all they could do is have climaxes they couldn't have orgasms, orgasm is a penis inside your vagina, that makes you go higher and higher and higher and higher. And when you don't, if you just do clitoris, it inhibits your vagina from actually feeling some women who are addicted to the vibrator. Do nothing in the vagina. And this is not counsel these women you know, and then helping them you know, you gotta give up the clitoris for a while, just a little bit of stimulation than enough to feel that I want to be penetrated. Because what happens is the clitoris is very important part but it doesn't stop there. Just like kiss doesn't stop at the kiss doesn't stop at the breasts. Don't skip the kiss, don't skip even the breathing. Don't even think about any of the other stuff and tell you're getting turned on each other. You're cuddling and whatever. And you're noticing your breath is automatic. See, that's the arousal if you're not, if you're not stimulated, you're not already having this sort of erotic breathing happening. Go slow, just cuddle and touch and say loving things. So here's a hack, which is one of the most powerful hacks and lovemaking is talking a lot of talking. Really, otherwise you're just you're just bursting with a bigger context. The bigger context here is your purpose of sex is to make love the purpose of sex and almost every sex book I've read, and I read it a lot to see what other people are thinking. But this was the my point and light and sexuality being a monk and being in love and everything. The purpose of The pleasure was just to help you feel everybody feels when I'm eating ice cream, I feel good, right? I'm feeling or men don't always feel when you the more muscle mass you have, the less you can feel. Feeling comes from estrogen. So for a man the purpose of sex is so you can wake up to feeling and then all the books is, oh, how can I feel more pleasure. You don't need to increase pleasure and sex, it's the most pleasurable thing you can do. When you don't want to try to make it more you try to make it. Just let it float up and down, up and down. Take away all that kind of control. I have I have to be very controlled not to get lost in pleasure. And the way you can do this for men is to focus on why am I having sex to feel the love I have for my partner. That's why I'm having it. And so when I'm feeling the pleasure, I don't try to intensify pleasure because any pleasure will allow you to feel so then you feel I love you. I love you. You're beautiful. I'm so happy to be with you. You're the one for me. Now you can amplify that even doubling or tripling if the woman participates in that. And she shares her feminine energy. Her feminine energy is always the emptiness inside of her the seeking of reassurance. If you look at when you fall in love with a man What's What do you people always say the sexes The best in the beginning. Doesn't have to be that way. Now it's so much better than I could ever imagine the beginning. But what are you feeling at the beginning? What you're feeling it to be at? Does he love me? Am I important? Either 1am I the only one is he think I'm beautiful? Does he like me? Does he enjoy doing things for me? Is he angry with me is he's died, we got an argument, he's still angry about that. They're always women have this need for reassurance. There's nothing wrong with that. And women have to that's the most power one of the most powerful ways to come back to her feminine side. See, ultimately what women need is safety. But you don't feel safety until you're somewhat in danger. Okay? See, it's just like, if you sit in a hot bathtub and don't move, it becomes neutral. Not that you move around and it feels good, where you can actually feel your that I feel safe, as opposed to just be safe. Okay, I'm unsafe all the time. But to feel safe, is what women need to stimulate estrogen going up. As such, the feeling of safety is to reveal something dangerous to somebody that's not going to judge you. And this feeling of insecurity and so natural to women. It's all see men have insecurity, it shows up differently. A man feels insecure, he doesn't feel it, okay. But he has an insecurity. That's why we're always looking at, you know, how fast our car is, how much money we make, what have I accomplished and achieved? See, leaders are always looking for reassurance when I give a talk, I want to hear people clap. You know, it's not like I feel bad. But if they clap, it feels good. Why does it feel good because it touches the part of me that feels I need to be reassured that I make a difference that every woman can relate to that women make a lot of testosterone, it's just that the bigger part of a woman's well being is her feminine side, the female hormones estrogen and progesterone, which are key factors, progesterone tends to get produced in your body. Most important after ovulation, it has to go up higher than your estrogen. And it tends to go up higher when you're killing things you'd like to do you enjoy doing, you don't have to do, okay, that ski when you do things I have to do, and it's a burden, and I don't have no time, no money, whatever, you know, you have to do stuff in this world. And unfortunately, women have set it up for themselves where they have to do too much. That's their choice. And they set it up. You know, it's that's a big subject in itself. But we have to be responsible for yourselves. But whenever you're saying whenever you're getting a lot of I have to, I'm not really wanting to I don't really like to do it. You're not making progesterone, you're making testosterone. And the more testosterone you make, the less progesterone you can make. Okay, because testosterone is made out of progesterone, so you deplete yourself. So all depression, unhappy feelings, lot loving feelings tends to happen a lot before her period, that's when our progesterone needs to be the highest, and it's not going up. Because you're busy making testosterone. So you got to find this balance, okay, it's not enough, testosterone is fine. It's just that when you're too much is not a good thing. And after your period, when you're going towards ovulation, that's where your estrogen levels have to keep climbing. So the most important time for a biohack with that is going on a date, a romantic activity where the man provides for you things that you could provide for yourself, but you don't have to because somebody's doing it for you. See, this is a very profound thing I've just mentioned it was it's a definition of something of behaviors a man can do for a woman provide for a woman or things that she can do for herself. But she doesn't have to because he's providing it for her. A that's all romance is I analyze that you open the car door. Well, certainly she can open the car door. But honey, you give so much to everybody. You do so much for me. Let me let me take care of you tonight. Let me do everything for you love it. So I take her to a restaurant. The I take her to restaurants, she can cook her own food. She could beat her up. No, we're gonna have so I'm gonna pay for somebody that can do it for us. So she's gonna feel like oh, I don't have to cook the food. I don't have to clean the dishes. Her estrogen goes up, but because she feels I don't have to do it all myself. Yeah, so one of the deeper biohack and this is something couples can start right away. Now if you were to, you know, I talked about a woman's insecurities which is Do you love me? Okay. Okay. Am I important to you? Am I the one for you? Do you think I'm beautiful? I mean, every once again in therapy, you see this stuff always going on inside, you know, it's just, it will mask itself and ask yourself, well, it's unfair. I do this for him. He doesn't do that for me. Well, why is that a problem? Aren't you happy to do those things? Well, I don't feel like he loves me. I don't feel like it's equal. Oh, so you're feeling afraid he doesn't love you. And he will and men will accept it women. Unless you do these hacks. Men will do less and less and less over time. And she will do more and more and more over time. This is why happens all the couples have problems. And she thinks I'm giving more why am I not good? Any more back? Well, you're giving more as a reward for him doing less. That's how we experience it. I should know this because if I was the guy doing backflips to give me more. So you women have this reciprocal gene, you do for me, I'll do for you. Simple as that. Men don't have that if you do for me, I must have earned it. See it, this stop right there. I just got paid for what I've done. So now I can take the day off. So fascinating. We don't understand our differences. And we do then suddenly, men make sense, when it makes sense. It's just like learning a new software. And that new software is like crazy until you figure it out. And then once you figure it out, you know the moves. So here's a powerful move. Whenever you practice outside the bedroom, but inside the bedroom, and you're making love, as soon as you start, you're kissing and you're touching, you're starting to feel more, then what the woman does is she says, Do you love me? And the man says, Yes, not. Of course. You see, you have to rehearse this beforehand, because logically speaking, if a woman was to say, Do you love me, often men will take that as criticism as What do you mean? Do I love you? Of course, I love you. I do this for you. I do this for you. You have the real app, set it up, man, that I had these insecurities. Sometimes Sometimes it feels like I'm not the most important person in your life. And I know I really am. I know you're in love with me. But sometimes, you know, like, when you're busy and whatever, I start to doubt that a little bit. So I just need to hear it. That's all I need. So I'm going to do this little exercise. It takes two minutes would you do it with I'm going to do it every day. For just two minutes. It will make me feel so much happier. Every man will say yes. Then you explain it to him. There's a little script. In the beginning, stick to the script. And then after that you can expand on it. It's Do you love me? She says he says yes. She says, How much do you love me with all my heart? Do you still think I'm beautiful? You are so beautiful. Are you happy? You married me? Are you happy with me? Yes, I'm so happy. Are you angry with me? No, I am so happy to be with you. I love you so much. Say simple little script. Now here's what it does to a man. This is so profound. Okay. The way we process negativity as animals, our low level people, is if you hurt me, I want to hurt you back. If you neglect me, I'm going to get even by neglecting. Can you relate to this? Right? This? Is this getting even thing? All right. So because what we're looking there is balance. We're looking for balance in our lives, right. So the other day, my wife was annoying me while I was driving, she had to talk to somebody was rather loud, the other person on the other phone was loud. And I was annoyed. So what it basically what I did, rather than evidently she needed to have this call, I just pulled the car over and went for a walk. And when I went for the walk, I watched my brain just go what she did that I should get back at her in some way, you know, whatever. And so now I'm comparing she did that what I'm going to do to her so that I went into my technique, which is rather than seek balance through behavior, let me balance my frustration and annoyance with her by how much I love her. So just and I was able to go right back to when I was making love. And I was saying all those wonderful things. Because when a man says those things, he can easily access the feelings that give rise to those things, we have to keep activating this because you can't feel when you're in your testosterone side, you need estrogen to feel but if something's annoying you your estrogen levels. Basically it means your testosterone is weak. So I can easily go back to when I I planted my sword arm I planted my flag. It's like for a man setting a goal your brain now starts organizing How am I gonna get there? If you don't set goals, your testosterone goes down. So when you make a statement, yes, I love you so much. Yes, I will always love it. Yes, I'm not angry with me. Or I'm You're so beautiful. I'm so lucky to be with you. That's another one of the phrases is Do you feel lucky to have me as your partner? I feel so lucky. Do you ever regret? Honey, you are so perfect for me. If you say these things every day, it's like affirmations. But it's 10 times more powerful than affirmation, because she's over there drinking it in, you're taking credit for drinking it ends because all men want is to be able to provide something meaningful to a woman she just has to reveal that part of her which is very vulnerable to do because any man can come and work What are you talking about? Course I love you. Why do you think like that are you still think I'm beautiful? Well, you could lose a few pounds on it. You would go to go to that, you know, anything he could say they would just shut you down in that moment. So it's a very vulnerable place where he's now providing the support you need and just to be a man doing this exercise. See, women don't understand men just to say those words if I say it out loud, I have to defend it with my life. Their brain to see this why men argue all the time with And once we say something, we have to defend it, you know, we are defenders, you know, that's our whole job for centuries is to protect everything. Now I gotta protect you from thinking these wrong things, as opposed to put out the positive, and your brain just goes into defending it and remembering and your short term memory, even the feeling that gets generated when you say those words, see this is different women have to feel and express. That's how women produce estrogen you feel and then you express for men you do. And then you get to feel the part of you that wants to do that. It's very interesting is I think that women just don't instinctively understand, like, I can say, Oh, I don't want to do that. And she said, it will make me happy. They Okay, I'll do it. I want to do it. See, Think about I'll give an example. Back in the day when China was really rising up, and I teach a lot of classes, they're huge classes, and they would pay me $50,000 To fly to China, first class travel, fly to China, and give a talk. A talk, you know, that I do not want to go to China is a long flight. I don't want to go there. Why go there? But then if you say, Hey, John, you want to give a give a talk in China? For free? No. Okay, we're 20 people. No, I can do that here. But they're paying you $50,000 Oh, based upon them paying me $50,000 I suddenly now want to fly to China. Do you see? Well would based upon the potential outcome. And you know, when my wife first explored this with me, she was you know, she said, You want to take the dog to the vet? I said, No, she's what? You don't want to take the dog to the vet, I did it twice. You're not going to do it this time. I didn't say I wouldn't do it. You asked me Do I want to take to the doctor. When you and all you kept talking about how bad it was? How much traffic there was? How far Why would anybody want to take the dog to the vet? So you'll ask you want to do it? No. But I will do it. Oh, no, no, you already said you don't want to do it. Because women don't understand that a man can ship so quickly. All she had to do is said he would make me really happy if you would take the dog to the vet. And I said, Sure, I'll be happy to do it. Wow. But it took a while for her to get that. Yes, I'm happy to do it based upon the consequence. But I'm not happy to go to the vet. But I can immediately change how I feel based upon what the outcomes going to be. And women aren't that way. Okay. To some extent they have a male sighs certainly they can. Some can relate to that. So it's understanding the woman's power to bring out the best and a man that can help her come back to her female side. That's the new challenge. You know, men are from Mars was more about understanding of what's going on inside of each of us. And it's still true. But when you're a woman and you're disconnected to your female side, you read that book and you think, well, I felt like I'm from Mars. And so many women who read that book did say that, I feel like if you're more feminist, you totally are from Mars, but you're unhappy, and you can't make a commitment. And men are not attractive enough for you, and you're too picky in your relationship. But you think I deserve that I'm so entitled, but you're alone. And that's because you haven't learned first how to come back to your female side, which is loving, which sees the good in things. And when you see a man, you see the good in him and communicate from that part, that man becomes a better man and is more loving and supportive of you, we can affect each other profoundly.

DeeAnne Riendeau: 00:33:19

We sure can. And you know, what I love about this, John, is that you have such a, you've allowed it to be simple, but profound. And I think we have a tendency of overcomplicating things.

John Gray: 00:33:34

Complicated stuff, you know, by simple

DeeAnne Riendeau: 00:33:36

Is gotta be and so even the words and you're sharing with me, it's like already, like, I'm, I'm registering these things, and I'm thinking, Okay, I think about times when I've had intimate experiences with my partner, and when we talk and we have a conversation, I get so much more out of the experience. And I never made that connection before. So it's so brilliant for our audience to be listening and hearing these things. Because I think the bells are going to be going off and thinking, oh my gosh, okay, I see the difference now and how valuable it is when we can open ourselves up to the script that you shared and just allowing us to fulfill those deeper needs that we have. So one of the things I wanted to ask about is I heard a stat and I can't recall where I heard it from, but they said the average amount of time that couples are spending having sex is two to three minutes. Now, that seems sad to me. I curious to know what your thoughts are around that because, like you said, we're making love. This isn't just about, you know, the climaxing or orgasm, it is about actually creating something so much more deep and profound than that. And so I just curious to know what do you think about that shoot is three minutes is that you? Would you say that that's true in your experience? And can you see couples that can extend that and really create this beautiful, harmonious intimacy.

John Gray: 00:35:03

It's more like eight minutes you take off the clothes you get into your bed. They're they're talking about once the intercourse happens, it's two to three minutes. Yes, that's usually the case. If it's not, you know, it's five minutes is the max for most, you know, men will think it's nine minutes, but they're not looking at the clock in and of itself. We have real statistics on just with masturbation, which is the porn industry knows the average amount of time a man takes when he goes to his porn. It's eight minutes. I mean, that's the average. He asked I find the site, he has to find the woman that several minutes to pick the one that sort of excites him. And then he basically connects with that. takes two to three minutes, and then he's disgusted with her and we'll never go back to her again. Okay? Is it this is when you have sex without intimacy. What happens whether you know it or not, is you're not attracted to that person again. That's why so many women who do the one nightstands always say why didn't he call back? Why did he because he's now disgusted with himself that he just had sex without intimacy. He doesn't know he's disgusted with himself. He just doesn't have attraction for you. Build a relationship, which is sex energy is the releasing of your energy, you know, and to understand energy systems. Why do movie stars all go crazy? You know, why do people you know big egos who are very successful breaking up their marriages, they can last they are they're argumentative. They're demanding the worst sides like spoiled brats, you know, when I would travel around, particularly in the decade of the 90s, where I was on all the TV shows I was a darling. And wherever I would go, and I wrote a book every year. So about a book tours, every single one of the people who take care of you, they say, Gosh, you're not like the other authors. They're also picky. They're also demanding. They're also like, you know, I want this and I want that and they get upset about stuff. Why? Well, I have my grounding and meditation, but the dynamic of what happens on negative emotions, basically. And I'll just say it real simply, all negative emotions are overreactions. Okay. Anybody? Because if you can be upset about something and five minutes later, you're not or three years later, you're not then it was an overreaction. Anything that's not love is an overreaction. Let's just get that you know, often. Whoa, you know, but I do love you. And I see, yeah, but when you're upset with your partner, you're not loving your partner. Okay, just get anytime you have negativity, you're not loving, you're overreacting to the situation, you're not seeing it with the bigger picture, you're not seeing it, here's this person struggling to do their best to you're struggling to be your best. And this takes wisdom. You know, this is, you know, a lifetime of coming. You know, unfortunately my my wife of 34 years, she passed on that killed for two years, I'm grieving. I go to the I wrote books on grieving, and it's important process, but you grow from that. And now I'm happier than I've ever been, you know, I'm remarried again. And I've got the wisdom of all those that marriage and the marriage before that, which was the wrong woman, Bonnie was the right woman. Now I'm with another right woman? And how do you attract the right person into your life, you have to be the right person. And just to know, and this is a thing people should all know, whatever trauma you have to heal, you're going to be attracted to the right person to help you get in touch with an EO your trauma. And that's what it is, and it's not going to escape. And as long as you're looking at your partner's the problem, you're making the big mistake, you're the problem. If you're having problems, you're a part of the problem. But I wouldn't be the part of the problem if they would change. No, that's an illusion. If this see how am I part of the problem, but and I have to say it skews pretty much 90% of the people who think it's their partners a problem is women. And that's because women try harder and relationship. They are the rulers of relationship. Men are the rulers of wanting to make money to surprise for a woman. Every man knows if you don't have a job, you don't make money, you're never gonna get laid. Okay? It's as simple as that and getting laid experience a sexual experience. He doesn't understand his biology and his consciousness. But he needs to connect with a woman in order to feel his female side and balance with his male side. Is he what a man has an erection? And he's serving a woman's happiness. Okay, he's on he's connected. He's inside of her. He's connecting to it. She is his female side. And he but he's got an erection. He's still on his male side. And what's ironic is a man actually can't get an erection unless his testosterone is high enough so that estrogen can rise. This is a sociopath can get erections because they have no estrogen. They have no feeling at all. They're just fakers. You know, and then that then you get psychopaths actually want to hurt people because they have no estrogen but they can feel their estrogen goes up when they experience her suffering and her pain. This is The horrible dark side of our world because parents did not teach their children how to be male and female. Because the parents were not male and female. If you are male, if you're pure male energy, and you're balanced with your female energy, nothing upsets you at all. If you're a woman, things bother you, they upset you. But you're very quickly to come back to feeling love. See, the whole thing is women need to be the part of us. If we kind of look at the extreme polarities, when our spiritual polarity one is, everything's perfect, everything's fine. And that's at a higher level. But at an even at a very basic level, from the male point of view, the world is filled with problems, and I'm here to solve them. Okay, as long as I got my tools to solve a problem, I don't get upset, men only get upset when they don't know what to do to solve the problem. And when they don't know what to do, so the problem, then they blame out and that's they're going into their female side, because the female side is saying you're affecting me. The male side is I'm affecting you. See, this is two sides of all of us people listening, don't get upset with me, but I'm just talking about our male side and our female side. But the female, you know, they would never be progress. If women didn't complain. Hmm. Say part of masculinity is everything's fine. This is cool, calm and collected. I can handle this, you know, this is I don't, I don't need things to change. I'm fine the way I am. Okay, so that's what you're dealing with a man, you know, this woman, I was just counseling her. And, you know, her husband drinks a lot when he's away from her. And she's all upset about that. I said, Look, was he that way before you married him? Yes, that's what you got, you're not going to change that? Well, the way you get and bring out a better part of him is it becomes so many mystery to you. Now you can ask him to help you feel safe, protected, but you can't go preaching to a man what he should do you get your power is Honey, would you do this to help me. And so maybe she could go from the point of view of, you know, when you drink so much, I'm afraid you're gonna die. And so would you try to drink a little less, and he'll probably maybe start moving in the right direction. But not because somebody tells him You shouldn't drink so much, it will kill you. That's my freedom. And men need the freedom to do what we want to do. Women need the freedom to feel what they want to feel. And so that's another bad biohack. If I don't get upset with my wife, she was upset this morning. I listened to her. I just I know what I have the power to help bring her back by not interrupting. Men are interrupting women all the time and then have to talk more and have to go over it. As opposed to but tell me more. And she said this and tell me more. And tell me more. It just simply let her talk for a little while. And some men go oh my god, my wife, she would go on and on only because you interrupt all the time. Okay, don't interrupt. And men are from Mars, I call that don't try to solve her problem. Don't give her advice. And women don't give men advice. Women are always saying you should do this, you should do this, that should work, you should just get rid of it comply.

DeeAnne Riendeau: 00:42:54

I see we have to stop shutting on ourselves. That's right on each other.

John Gray: 00:42:59

You know, I mentioned that thing about if we didn't have complaints, we wouldn't have progress. But that's the old world. Now we have enough consciousness to realize every complaint is simply a request. If you want to bring out the masculine and a man, ask for help. Don't complain as much as possible. You know, somebody's stepping on your foot, you have to say, Hey, you're stepping in my foot that hurts, right? That's how they're going to know. But you don't have to complain about you can say, Oh, honey, you keep stepping on my foot. It feels so much better. If you don't do that, would you try to be careful that is simply not push it them. See it complaining and wishing and nagging and, you know, withholding love all these things we do as human beings to try to change our partner through, You're upsetting me or you should I'm gonna hurt you back or I'll get even or I'm resenting you. I'm withholding my love. All these manipulations don't work. Okay. They work in a primitive world. They don't work here. They work between animals, you know, animals can't communicate. So they bite each other. Okay, step on me, you grow. And that's what, anytime you're raising your voice. You're in your animal. There's no reason unless the person's on the other side of the house. And that's I cured my wife. She grew up in a yelling family, you know, and so she wanted I was 28. Yelling just doesn't work. It scares the kids. It's not there's not productive whenever you yell. It's implying nobody's listening to me. And just making yourself feel worse. If you yell, you're just saying to yourself and nobody's listening and nobody's listening, as opposed to what you need is to feel I'm being heard. When a woman can communicate and feel heard her estrogen goes up, her stress goes down. This is what therapy is all about. And women 90% of the people who go to therapy are women. Why? Because they feel better not being interrupted, having someone ask them questions.

DeeAnne Riendeau: 00:44:45

Ah, this is just so brilliant. I feel like we could talk forever. But you said a couple of things that I really want to bring to the surface. And one of those is this energy of this lifeforce energy that you're talking about when we are coming together. And we're, you know, consummating having said Max, can you explain that to our audience what you mean by that? Because I think that we're in a society where people are just having sex and you're right, we're we are missing some aspect of that intimacy. And I think that there's a little bit of danger not to put fear in people's minds. But I think that there's consequences to that. And so I'm curious to know what your perspective is on that and what the consequences are when we are having that intercourse aside from the man that no longer being attracted to us after the one night stand. You know, what are the deeper consequences to shifting that lifeforce energy or having negative lifeforce energy exchanged?

John Gray: 00:45:40

Well, it's a big subject, and we want to spend more than two to three minutes on it that since fo B, we're doing but let's look at some key points here. If a man makes love to his wife, and he loves her, and she loves him, after sex, and during sex, her his body will make a hormone called prolactin This is measurable. Prolactin inhibits addiction to ejaculation inhibits addiction to sex. This is why when a man loves a woman over time, he loses interest one reason when it's not, you know, if you have mistrust and affairs and all I crazies who lose interest, but just in a natural thing, a good relationship, still, couples lose interest in sex. And part of that is nature. When you find a woman you love, and you have a child nature wants to keep the man with that woman and not be interested in other women. So it gives you this hormone called prolactin that decreases your interest in sex. Okay, so that's what happens if you have sex. Without love. You actually don't make prolactin and now you're addicted to sex is then again that it's like the universe the nature is Tella is saying to the body, hey, you had sex with somebody that you didn't love and they didn't love you, you should find another one that's built into our biology, you know, they have as sex with yourself sex with somebody else, but there's no love. You certainly love the experience, but you don't know the person. So you know, always have I had sex with a girl on one nightstand, which I did. I'm so grateful. And I felt so much love and whatever and they want to see her again. There was no intimacy of bonding in the heart and in the mind, but women have to be mindful about is first make sure you bond in your mind with a man and he's bonded with you through conversation, getting to know each other admiring ideas, having differences of opinion without conflict, sharing your truth, without conflict without trying and conflict. All that happens when you try to use your ideas to change somebody. Right? Just Well, we have a different point of view. I think this but that makes sense. To me. You're like saying that, you know, this is like there needs to be space for the mind that connect then the heart. That's what the romantic behaviors are, where he does things for her and not her doing things for him. He bonds with you only by doing things for her. If she does things for him, he doesn't bond. You give up something for him. romantic date is always him providing things for you that you could do for yourself, but he'll do for you. I have a hack on that for couples, which is every day first you got the reassurance exercise only to men as we're going to do it every day, at least four hugs a day, nonsexual hugs that he pursues her, that will raise her estrogen as well. It's like a six second hug has been proven biologically to produce oxytocin, which is the safety hormone not before 660 seconds. nonsexual, then when a woman feels safe, her estrogen can start to rise up because estrogen arises up when you feel like oh, I can depend on him. What will happen in her mind is she'll start thinking about things that are good in the relationship. Rather than going around and around. He forgot to do this. He didn't call he didn't dad he's talking to so and so I felt hurt by that. You just get controlled by that stuff. So you feel safe, your mind can now start looking at positive things. This isn't get biology. When you're not feeling safe. It's somewhat of a stress hormone being produced when the stress hormones are being produced adrenaline or cortisol. Blood flow primarily goes to what's called the right prefrontal cortex. It just looks at danger, looks at problems. The left prefrontal cortex looks at solutions. It's optimistic. This is proven in science. So if you're in stress, you can't love you can't feel love and you can do you know, protect someone or whatever. We're not going to feel the love. The positive love the pure love that happens when you feel safe. So that's for hugs a day. That's a hack. Okay, one of those hugs you do they do love me kind of thing where she says, Do you love me? Do you like me think I'm beautiful? He says yes, yes, yes. He just anchors himself into his commitment again and again. And again. It's like getting a standing ovation you want to go to give another one. Get another hack that you introduce here is the hack of women. And it's good to discuss it and say in the beginning, I'm gonna put my hand up five fingers that implies I'm going to make a request for you to do something that I could do for myself, but I'm not going to do it. You're going to do it for me with great enthusiasm because it's within five minutes, and you're going to stop whatever where you're doing, whatever you're doing, like, like, is the most important thing. And I'm the most important thing in the world to so many times women could use a hand of help over here, but he's busy, she didn't want to bother him or whatever. And that just makes you feel more and more excluded, there's a power to know you've got an emergency button, and you need to practice that button to know that it exists, does it you know, big things are gonna happen you want instant, but the way you learn that is by lots of little things every day, within five minutes, it would be like a foot massage, it'd be like King clean, the same could be empty the trash, it could be plan a date, it could be cleaning up the garage, there's some things you know, the stairways got boxes on it, when you move those boxes, any little tasks and can be made me a cup of tea, that's usually when my wife says he just like made me a cup of tea, or I'm watching TV, she's gonna massage my feature and massage her feet while watching TV, what's the big deal, but it's within five minutes, because what exhausts men they don't realize is when they don't see a clear ending to something it gives them the energy is there, if something quick, easy, and you're gonna get a reward for it, you're gonna be appreciative for it, you're gonna feel like she's, you know, she's grateful for that. And she will be, and now she's got this little, I owe something I don't have to do as amazing and has to be little things, something within five minutes, and then once so another biohack once a week, two hands go up. And that would be let's say you're having a conversation and he just doesn't seem you know, fully present, you know, and you want to share about your day and he's distracted, he needs to go to his cave, whatever it is. And that's understandable. I'm the guy sometimes I just can't listen, I gotta have my time alone. You know, I gotta rebuild my testosterone. There's too much estrogen connecting and all this stuff. Do this 10 minutes, I'll look at the clock, you got 10 minutes, no problem, I'm gonna give you my full attention for 10 minutes. See this is men can do it. If they know there's a clear ending. And it makes a big, it's a big deal to her. Oh, women have to get over the hurdle of thinking, Why do I have to ask for this? Why does he just do that? And because we're not women, we're not women. We don't have the estrogen you have we also can, we're also allowed a little crazy, you know, we can just relax. They I can forget my problems. You can't Okay, you're carrying him around all the time. I'm not complaining you do it just stay away. But no, we want to get close. And this is the 10 minutes. Now during that 10 minutes, you want to train him that what you're going to talk about implies no blame towards him. See women usually they got all this pressure building up during the day, but it gets projected onto discontent with him. That's just the way the brain works. The person who's safest to talk to big gets the blame. Yeah. So you have to practice how to communicate in a way that will get his attention. 10 minutes, we'll do it. But also more sophisticated, is when you complain about your day, and that's fine as long as you let them know. I just want to talk for 10 minutes and I'm gonna feel really good as a fault and then you complain and you let your exaggerated a bit. But you do it not. I'm gonna give you two examples. One is the wrong way one is the right way once the boring way one you're gonna get his attention. Is it oh, there was so much traffic today. I was late to work so unsolved needed this I wasn't there. Much working on the copy machine it was didn't work as do my fingers. I must spend an extra half an hour because they didn't give me the receipt. She's an accountant. So she's just telling me what happened. That's incredibly boring to me. It's a plane. Okay, that's all she has to do to make it interesting to me and men don't understand this. Then they have to tell them just do this. This is learn how to bring emotion into your conversation was so late. I was there's so much traffic on the bridge. You know, sometimes it's so frustrating. This person was in front of me that we're going so slow and then we got stuck in an accident. I didn't plan on that. I was afraid. I was so afraid I was gonna get late and then I got there. Well wasn't too bad. It wasn't so bad. But it was it was disappointing. I wish I wish that this had happened. And now you know, I embarrassed myself because I was told so and bla bla bla bla bla it was so embarrassing because I didn't have the right answer. You say the word embarrassing. Every dopamine shoots up in men. What? What? What embarrassed? Do you mean, my wife's not more perfect than me? You know? Because you're always walking around high and mighty and the virtuous one. Share. You're embarrassed about something? He'll Oh, yeah. Bye, honey. I love you so much. You're so great. So you just share that frustration, disappointment concerns, worries, fears, embarrassment, regrets that stuff for about eight minutes, then you always finish it with. But I love my job. I'm so glad I have my job and so good. I can talk to you. I just feel so good. Just being able to get it out. And oh my gosh, when I come home, I'm just so relieved that the life we have you have to shift to being positive. And that he spirit says I don't have to fix her when she's upset. I don't have to tell her not to feel that way. She's She's grown up. She's capable of going from this to that. All I have to do is be present. And women have to get over the idea that he should do the same thing. Okay, brilliant John. And intimacy is connecting that you can connect by going into him or you can get to connection by him going into you. And that's how We're designed to do it. Men are designed to go in and you, when you go into him, he becomes a baby, you lose all attraction to him, he becomes somebody you're taking care of, you're giving to stop doing that. Use him to make you feel happier. Now he's your hero. That's what you want from the man in your life, as he provides for you now a new kind of emotional supports, and you can make your own money in most cases, what can he provide for you, he's got to do things for you, and also communicate in a way that opens you up to your female side, and then you'll start to really appreciate what he has to offer.

DeeAnne Riendeau: 00:55:34

And we've got to be willing to ask for that.

John Gray: 00:55:37

Yeah, definitely ask, not resent having to ask and not resent having to ask again and again. And every one of my books men are from Mars has a whole chapter on how to ask, also the new book beyond Mars. And Venus is even more the art of asking a man so that he will do things for you. But also to understand sometimes you ask he will forget to do it. Like Honey, would you bring home the milk today? Sure. I'll be glad to do it. But I'm, I'm just thinking big things. I don't think a little stuff while I'm driving home. So then he gets home, he's watching TV, he's going to bed you say something like, you follow him to the bedrooms. Oh, honey, it'd be so nice if you go to the grocery store and get some milk now and he says, Oh, I'll do it tomorrow. You don't say to him, I've asked you three times. Okay, I'll just do it myself. There's so many ways women sabotage it. No, he sits down taking off his shoes. He said, and he says, Oh, I'll do it. Sir. Ma. Yeah, you could do it tomorrow. This, let it be, and then say it would just be so nice. If you would go tonight. Ah, I'm just so tired. I will promise I promise I'll do it. Yeah, that I know, you work really hard. It would just be so nice. If we had it in the morning. Repeat it women don't understand. Just repeat, don't need to nag whatever in the same tone of voice as you're asking the first time nagging is repeating over and over becoming more and more frustrated and more disappointed. Or doing it yourself, which is really training him to, to not do anything, you'll just do it yourself. We have a gene, which has never do anything you don't have to do. Okay, we're all and women don't realize this. And also, when you're asking, always do it from the point of view of, I really need this and you haven't done this is so important. You know, you minimize it, you say, you know, thought really big deal, but it would make me so happy that if you're upset with them, and you're complaining a little complaint by that, Oh, you forgot to do that. It's not really a big deal. But it would be really nice. If you remember, it's so so good. When you do it right to the whole art to this this is and people go, Oh, I shouldn't have to learn new things, but continue being single, you're gonna have to learn new stuff you want you wanna have romance, you want lasting love, you want a relationship and also have a job at the same time, you got a lot to learn along the way. And so do men. If your wife is making money, she's out in that world, you have to have extra skills to soften her up to you know, you have to do this stuff. And then you find out that it's a bunch of little stuff. I only mentioned most of those. I haven't done all my hacks, my books are filled with them. That's so practical. They're so easy. And I will say you know, who resists them the most women. Because they have this thing I shouldn't have to change. Because I'm right men felt the other point of view is they're like eager. When a man ends a relationship with a woman, he always says no matter what I do, it's never enough to make her happy. And then I say to him, Well, you're doing all the wrong stuff, I got an easier way for you to do it. And he changes is the woman who kind of well, I've been doing this and this and this. And you know, I've gotten anything he doesn't give to me. I said why should he give to you? There's nothing to get you don't you just have criticism on happiness complaining. And I'm not talking about all women. Okay, but for counseling and whenever, and how many people get divorced, were still first marriages. 50% second marriages? 70% third marriages 90%. What does that mean? It means people aren't learning. You know, it just gets worse and worse, just thinking changing a partner is going to do it. No way.

DeeAnne Riendeau: 00:58:53

It's not working. Right. Obviously, it's not working. So this is where you come in John, because I know you offer all sorts of seminars and teachings and books. So anything that you want to share as kind of your final words here. I think we might have to have it take two because there was just so much information. I got so much so many notes here on my paper. But you know, where can people discover more? Where can they find your books? Can you just give us a little bit of that as we wrap up?

John Gray: 00:59:21

We have a free class at Marsvenus.com When people when they go to that website, Mars venus.com There's a free class right on the front page. There's also I've been talking about supplements but there's one supplement I recommend at the top that helps balance hormones and is a button it will send you right to Amazon to do there. As you know I used to have a health food store with 40 products but this was the biggest product everybody loved it. So just got elemental orientates is what it's called. But don't remember that just push the button will take you to Amazon. We have a class there which everybody loves changes your life called understanding men is for women only. But if you're a couple I would suggest the men to listen as well. It's so much fun. And it's your laugh out loud. But it's also so many insights you just didn't know before about men to help women navigate having a relationship.

John Gray: 01:00:08

And I also do weekend classes, I got one coming up in August, the first weekend of August as like, whatever, August 2 Third, it's a Friday, all day, Friday, all day, Saturday and half day on Sunday. And as for single people, as for couples, it's how to upgrade your skills, there's always a few challenge couples there who want me to work with them. And when you see it, see somebody's in a challenge relationship, you realize, don't they see this, this and this, and they get results. And I help everybody everybody gets out. But you don't have to do all the work yourself. You see yourself over there. And you realize, you know, I have that issue too, a little bit. And, and we want to just, we want to polish up, you know, I feel like some people need off overhaul, but other people just need to be polished. And this is really good polishing, amaze, and for Singapore, how to understand the opposites, attract it into your life, bring out the best in men and be attracted to the right men, often women are just attracted to the wrong and I help understand why and how to adjust all those make those changes.

DeeAnne Riendeau: 01:01:05

I feel like you're a great problem solver for all of these relationships in the world right now. And I think that this is so fitting, seeing the trends that we're seeing in the world. So I'm so grateful that you started to do this work way back when. Because it's contributed to even my experience in my relationships. So thank you so much for doing the work that you've done to allow us to be able to step in and to learn from you, John, it has been so rewarding to sit here. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your very busy schedule to come and talk with me. I know our audience is going to love this conversation. And we will put all of the links in the show notes for everybody listening. So don't you worry, you will have access to John and his great wisdom. John, thank you so much for being part of our show When Spirit Calls.

John Gray: 01:01:55

Yeah, I love it. I think it's wonderful. Thank you so much.

DeeAnne Riendeau: 01:01:58

Thank you.

DeeAnne Riendeau: 01:02:02

WSC Intro/Outro: So happy you could join us today. And we hope that you found comfort and inspiration with wherever you are at right now. If you feel you received a gift in today's message, please pass that gift along to a loved one by sharing this episode with them. To continue this conversation. Please join me at Rosehope.ca And when you do, be sure to access your free gift by signing up for the When Spirit Calls newsletter. I'm looking forward to connecting with you again soon.